Dissecting (with) Monsieur Jumart – Juliart - Julliart – Julliard
The man who taught Anne Lister anatomy and dissecting
Susanne Piotrowski
Published on 5 February, 2025Trigger warning: This article contains descriptions of all processes related to the dissection of the dead, including references to dissections of foetuses and deceased infants.
Estimated reading time: 40 minutes.
This article describes active research and the facts and details included have and will continue to be updated as new information is uncovered. If you come across any other relevant information that can help clarify or expand the topics below, please get in touch.
In 1829, Anne Lister started to attend scientific lectures in Paris and soon felt that she needed help to understand Anatomy. In 1830, she started to take private lessons in Anatomy and also dissecting specimens with a medical student.
This article reveals the identity of the student who played an important role in Lister’s education and her lifelong pursuit of knowledge.
A woman dissecting bodies?
In 1829, after Anne Lister started to attend lectures at the Musée National d'Histoire Naturelle in Paris, she soon realised that Anatomy was too complex for her to understand without help. At the beginning of 1830, she asked Jean Victor Audouin, aide-naturaliste at the museum, if he could find someone to assist her.
“Then took Monsieur Audoin [Audouin, Lister misspelled his name in all her entries] home (rue de Seine no. [number] 11) saying I wished to speak to him — I could not get on by myself in anatomy — Monsieur Audoin will arrange with a young student to come and give me lessons — thinks that with lessons twice a week for a couple hours each I may in month’s time master the osteologie humaine”
5 of January 1830 (SH:7/ML/E/12/0143)
On the 12th January 1830, Audouin introduced a medical student to her. At first, Anne thought his name was “Jumart”, then she spelled his name “Juliart”, and finally “Julliart”.
“He introduced Monsieur Jumart to me in the lecture room who is to come at 10 a.m. tomorrow to give me my 1st lesson in anatomy — to have 2 lessons a week”
12 of January 1830 (SH:7/ML/E/12/0145)
But who was this man who must have been astonished that an English lady wanted to study anatomy so thoroughly? Even for medical students at the time, dissection was not an integral part of their studies until the 1820s (Stelmackowich 2012; Bonner 2000), and the École de Médecine in Paris was one of the first to do so. English men travelling through Europe on their Grand Tour were very much interested in anatomy (Paganussi 2022).
The demand for corpses was extremely high, but after the French Revolution, a new organisation of hospitals meant that poor people were treated free of charge. However, if they died there - which was of course very common - their bodies could be used for dissections. The Hôtel-Dieu hospital on the Île de la Cité¹ was the best source for specimens, but other body parts that Lister dissected came from La Pitié hospital.
Around 1750, there were women who dissected hundreds of corpses. However, by 1830, there seem to have been none holding the scalpel themselves.
In Italy, Anna Morandi-Manzolini (1714-1774) produced anatomical wax models and gave lectures at the University of Bologna. In order to create the models, Morandi-Manzolini had to dissect a large number of corpses herself. These models were true to life and were used by universities because they made the study of Anatomy much easier, especially in the heat of summer (Paganussi 2022). In the 1800s, her work was continued by the French anatomist Louis Auzoux (1797-1880), who made his own anatomical models out of papier-mâché. Lister visited him in Paris and admired his models².
In France, Marie Marguerite Bihéron (1719-1795) invented a method to prevent her wax models from melting. Bihéron was also known in other countries, sold her works in many of them, and gave lectures in England. Like Morandi-Manzolini, she dissected many cadavers (Carlyle 2016; Wils, De Bont, and Au 2017).
1. The building you can see today was built between 1867 and 1876, in Anne Lister's time the building was on the opposite side of the square in front of Notre Dame.
2. West Yorkshire Archive Service Calderdale, SH:7/ML/E/13/0041.
Why was Anne dissecting bodies herself?
Although the first few lessons took place in the flat the two Listers shared until 13 April 1830, there is no record in her aunt Anne Lister's diary of her niece's activities with Monsieur Julliard. After that, everything took place at no. 7 Rue St Victor.
None of Anne Lister’s acquaintances in Paris knew about these dissections. In the mornings, Lister often studied the corpses of babies and other specimens. In the afternoons, she visited her friends, went to balls or attended meetings at Georges Cuvier's house. She didn't even tell Mariana Lawton about these lessons, but Vere Hobart³ was aware of them.
To understand Anatomy, Anne Lister could have read and worked on books with Monsieur Julliard or taken part in dissections in disguise. However, she decided to do it herself and get hands-on experience, despite feeling nauseous at first, having to endure the smell in her small flat, and being responsible for disposing of the cut-up parts in the toilet⁴.
Julliard often got body parts or deceased babies from La Pitié hospital. At the time, the hospital was on the same corner as the Jardin des Plantes and Rue St Victor, so it was only a few steps from Anne’s “little apartment”.
“Breakfast (grapes) and Monsieur Julliart came at 9 3/4 10th time and staid till 12 25/.. — brought from la Pitié the right hand of a corpse who died last Monday or Tuesday from an accident”
13 February 1830 (SH:7/ML/E/12/0164)
3. West Yorkshire Archive Service Calderdale, SH:7/ML/E/14/0050.
4. West Yorkshire Archive Service Calderdale, SH:7/ML/E/14/0037.
Who was Monsieur Julliard?
How do you find a person Anne Lister mentioned in her journal? And why? Monsieur Julliard played an important role in Anne Lister’s education in natural science. Therefore, it seemed interesting to try and identify him.
The search for him started with his family name because there is no mention of his first name in Anne’s journals. Similar research work for other scientists at the Jardin des Plantes is much easier as they are known for their work at the Musée national d’histoire naturelle. However, to identify a medical student who studied at the end of the 1820s or early 1830s wasn’t easy. Especially since Anne Lister never spelled his name correctly.
It is likely that Anne initially spelt Julliard’s name as she heard it:
Once Anne got it right, sometimes she used just one l:
Then, she eventually started to write it with two ls, which was nearly correct:
Perhaps unsurprisingly, when I used Anne’s spelling of his name to look for people named “Julliart” in and around Geneva, it led to no results as the name is always spelled with a “d” at the end, not a “t”.
However, Anne received notes from Julliard and it is likely he would have signed them. So why did she still misspelled his name? All this could have been due to his handwriting! Below is an example of Julliard’s signature, dated from 1836, when he signed the birth certificate of his first son.
It is in fact a bit difficult to see if the name ends with a “t” or “d”!
Unfortunately, there are only sparse details about Monsieur Julliard's personal life in Anne Lister’s journals. In them, Anne wrote that he was from Geneva, where his mother had two pensions one in the town, one in the countryside:
“it seems his mother keeps the dearest but genteelest pension at Geneva, 1 house in the town 1 in the country near Secheron — 240/. he thinks par mois — people generally dine in private — it seems from his that the best society is there on account of the dearness — shall talk to him more about it — several pensions chemien des philosophes, Plain Palais, near the botanic garden, but these pensions à meilleur marché”
6 February 1830 (SH:7/ML/E/12/0160)
“hoped I would recommend his mother’s pension at Geneva sur la Place de Belair tout près de l’hotel de la Balance — her country house at Warembé à dix minutes de l’hotel de Sécheron — price depends upon the rooms occupied — from 180 francs to 240 francs per person, and for each servant 1/2 the price paid by the maître — but when I said the fixed price for servants en pension in Paris was always 100/. par tête, he begged me to put this down as his mother’s price — I said I had heard she was considered rather dear — yes! but hers was considered the first rate pension in Geneva at the rate of 240/. per month she would take pensionnaires by the day — he owned there were pensions at Geneva for 80 francs per month”
13 May 1831 (SH:7/ML/E/14/0059)
Monsieur Julliard’s mother had her businesses being advertised in the Journal de Genève.
Still referring to Julliard, Anne also wrote that he was studying in Paris to become a doctor and surgeon in Geneva.
“Monsieur Jumart [Julliard] is from Geneva — will settle there as a surgeon when he has got his doctor’s degree here — means to study in London, and Edinburgh, too, if he can — prefers surgery because it is more certain than medicine”
20 January 1830 (SH:7/ML/E/12/0149)
Interestingly enough, Julliard completed his studies in Paris and did not attend either of the two major British universities that offered doctor’s degrees in Medicine.
The next step after finding the correct spelling of the family name was to look for Julliards in or around Geneva to hopefully find a person of the right age to have been a medical student in Paris in 1829 to 1834.
Surprisingly there is a building at the University Hospital in Geneva that was named after a Gustave Julliard.
This Gustave eventually became a professor of the university of Geneva, but he was born in 1836 as the document below shows.
Therefore, this Gustave Julliard could not have been the medical student helping Anne in 1830. However, Gustave Julliard’s father was also a doctor and surgeon, who returned from Paris in 1835, after completing his studies there and marrying in the same year. This man’s name was Étienne François Julliard and he was born on 16 March 1804. Therefore, he was the right age to study in Paris in 1830, when Anne Lister began her lessons.
Étienne François Julliard became a doctor in 1834 and a surgeon in 1835. One of his doctoral theses is available online and another is in the archives of the Bibliothèque Nationale de France.
The title page of the dissertation from 1835 includes the name of Étienne’s doctor father - M. Sanson -, who was also a doctor. Louis Joseph Sanson (1790-1841) was mentioned briefly in Anne Lister's journals, mainly when M. Julliard had to postpone lessons because he had an appointment with his doctor father.
“Had Monsieur Julliart (26th lesson) from 11 3/4 to 2 3/4 excepting 40 minutes that he was obliged to leave me to go and speak to Monsieur Sanson.”
28 April 1830 (SH:7/ML/E/13/0032)
“Note from Monsieur Julliart to say he was just going off into the country with Monsieur Sanson, and sorry he could not come to day, but would not fail tomorrow.”
23 June 1830 (SH:7/ML/E/13/0056)
The dissertation from 1835 also shows that Julliard worked at the Hôtel Dieu hospital, under Louis Joseph Sanson, in the department for eye diseases (maladies des yeux).
The signature of Monsieur Sanson can also be found in the official documents of the École de Médecine de Paris about Monsieur Julliard.
As for Monsieur Julliard’s residence, Anne mentioned that he lived at no. 23 Quai de la cité.
“found Mr. Julliart at home no. number 23 Quai de la Cité, en face du Pont d’Arcole — to call on me at 4 for his bistouries.”
12 August 1833 (SH:7/ML/E/16/0094)
His addresses are also mentioned in the papers of the Académie de Paris, Faculté de Médecine for Étienne François Julliard. His last address, and the one mentioned by Anne Lister, is also included.
Therefore, given the evidence, I can say with certainty that Étienne François Julliard was the medical student who gave Anne Lister lessons in Anatomy and dissection.
Yet, Lister wouldn’t be Lister without also making some remarks about Monsieur Julliard’s skills in Medicine.
“Monsieur Juliart came 6th time (had previously spoken to Monsieur Brion — other horses to be sent — very civil) at 10 25/.. and staid till 12 1/4 — latterly at the skeleton in general — he explained the vertebræ illegible he has taught me, I think, almost all he knows about the crane — he is not très fort pour l’anatomie du crane [very good at skull’s anatomy] — and the lesson was heavy — I must find time to study more —”
30 January 1830 (SH:7/ML/E/12/0156)
“Julliart came at 1 1/2 and staid till 4 Lesson 2 Helping to clean all up had male foetus very small might weigh about three pounds opened the abdomen studied the intestines and he shewed me how the testicles sslipped through into the bourse or scrotum but somehow he is not very profound and if I had as much command of the knife I think I should soon know as much or more than he does from 4 1/4 to 5 at Hippolyte Cloquet on the organs of digestion stomach and intestines Having the foetus on the table before me off home at 5 1/4 and came in at 6 10/..”
18 February 1831 (SH:7/ML/E/14/0026)
The results of the exams Julliard took tend to also show that he was very good at what he did. The last one from 1835 was given an “extrêment satisfait” (extremely satisfied).
His second exam was about Anatomy and Physiology:
Julliard also passed his final exams with honours and the fact that he is referred to as “Éleve laureat” on the titles of his doctoral theses indicates he was a very talented student.
During the time she studied with Monsieur Julliard, Anne Lister also wrote about some discussions she had with him, in which the topic was politics. In this regard, she didn’t like his point of view at all.
“just done as Monsieur Julliart came at 9 1/2 and staid till 12 1/2 — some how got on to politics — he all against England as a nation — all against our government with many absurdly wrong ideas of our influence over the present government of France — his politics are abominable — fittest for democratical America — said I knew nothing about politics je ne m’en mêle jamais ni ici ni ailleurs [I never get involved, neither here nor elsewhere]”
27 February 1830 (SH:7/ML/E/12/0171)
“then unluckily got on the subject of politics — I standing up for bonne foi good faith for governments as well as individuals — he for finesse in governments — the French government too often the dupe of the English government — had been lately so in the war with Spain and in Greece now — his politics I cannot endure — told him that when all France thought as he did we must of necessity have war — Surely this is the last time that we shall ever talk politics — Surely come what may, I will not have this subject anymore – but in spite of all he said I never felt cooler in my life, and said to myself as I quietly posed him a little now and then well! I am learning something – learning how to be cool in argument – to say little myself and let my adversary run on till he himself is easily made in some sort to confute himself -”
17 March 1830 (SH:7/ML/E/13/0013)
When he returned to Geneva, Julliard was working as a doctor but also got involved in politics. He became a member of the Association du 3 Mars. The group was in favour of abolishing censorship, reducing the number of members of the Council of State and the Representative Council (legislative body), and demanding an increase in the legislative and budgetary powers of both.
In a critical phase of the Association, Julliard wrote an open letter in 1841 in the Journal de Genève.
In several other years, he was also mentioned in the Journal de Genève as a candidate for the elections for the National Council of Genève:
Étienne François Julliard lived to 81 years. In 1835 he got married to Jacqueline Antoinette Eynard. Their son, the above-mentioned Gustave was born in 1836. He too studied in Paris and came back to Geneva, worked as a doctor and surgeon and got into politics. He eventually became rector of the 'Université de Genève. One of his sons also became a doctor and professor at the same university. Étienne François had a second son - Amédée Charles - who was born in 1838 but died in 1842. In 1857, Étienne François became the first director of the Bureau de Salubrité Publique of Geneva. He finally died on 21st May 1885.
His obituary was published in the Journal de Genève:
A second obituary shows that he was a member of the Société Litteraire of Geneva.
And a third obituary, from the state and city of Geneva, mentions his role in the Bureau de Salubrité Publique from 1857-1881.
Étienne François Julliard appeared in Anne Lister’s diaries for about a year and a half but played an important role in her life in Paris and in her lifelong pursuit of a deeper understanding of Anatomy. Anne was never satisfied with general knowledge alone. She wanted to comprehend what the scientists of her time understood. This medical student from Geneva helped her to learn more about the complexities of the human body. My search for information about him was triggered by my interest in the role he played in Anne Lister's life. Initially, I didn’t know if it would be possible to uncover anything about him, but being able to discover his actual (and full) name and surprisingly even his face has been a very satisfying pursuit of my own.
References
Bonner, Thomas N. 2000. Becoming a Physician: Medical Education in Britain, France, Germany, and the United States, 1750-1945. N.p.: Johns Hopkins University Press.
Carlyle, Margaret. 2016. “Collecting the World in Her Boudoir . Women and Scientific Amateurism in Eightteen-Century Paris.” Early Modern Women. An Interdisciplinary Journal 11, No. 1.
Paganussi, Caroline. 2022. “A woman of supreme goodness, and a singular talent.Anna Morandi Manzolini, Artist and Anatomist of Enlightenment Bologna.” In Portraits and Poses. Leuven: Leuven University Press.
Stelmackowich, Cindy. 2012. “The Instructive Corpse: Dissection, Anatomical Specimens, and Illustration in Early Nineteenth-Century Medical Education.” Spontaneous Generations: A Journal for the History and Philosophy of Science 6, No.1:50-64.
Wils, Kaat, Raf De Bont, and Sokhieng Au. 2017. Bodies beyond Borders. Moving Anatomies 1750 - 1950. Leuven: Leuven University Press.
Acknowledgements
Many thanks to two of Étienne François Julliard’s descendants - Lionel Rossellart and, especially, Sébastién Sanchez (born Julliard) - for their kind support and for allowing me to use the drawing of their great-great-great-grandfather.
Many thanks also to Dr. Suzanne Moss for pointing me to Marie Marguerite Bihéron and Anna Morandi-Manzolini.
Also a big thank you to Marlene Oliveira and Steph Gallaway for proofreading and their suggestions.
And finally thank you to the West Yorkshire Archive Service Calderdale, the Bibliothèque nationale de France (BnF), the Archives nationales de France, and the Archives d’Etat de la République et Canton de Genève for the permission to use the images in this article.
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